JDK5 SOURCE ?!?

Submitted by ink on Sat, 11/13/2004 - 18:11.

I'm downloading the source of the jdk 1.5 released under this "Java Research License".
I cannot beleave to my browser.

http://java.sun.com/j2se/jrl_download.html

Will something change in GNU Classpath and JNode ?

C.Santini

‹ Charva Beanshell JDK compatibility level ›

No change yet

Submitted by admin on Sun, 11/14/2004 - 13:56.

Since the JRL is limited to research only, we cannot and will not use it.
So please to all developers, do not use these sources to advance JNode. A lot of trouble may come out of it in the future.

Ewout

I understand...

Submitted by ink on Sun, 11/14/2004 - 14:30.

I've read the comments on javalobby.
This JRL seems to be a beta-test, and it's probably going to change.
Untill that moment, as Ewout correctly says, we cannot use the source (even if I think Sun wouldn't take legal action against someone who is trying to develop a java-based OS - untill it becomes usable as server Laughing out loud ).

Anyway, we could, individually, try to make JNode work in our hardisk... just to see how it could be working with the new metal theme (deliberately provocative Eye-wink.

C.Santini

suggestion: notify JNode developers of it

Submitted by Fabien D on Sun, 11/14/2004 - 14:18.

Hi Ewout,
May I suggest you to notify (by mail) JNode developers not using jdk sources (jdk 1.5 or other). Just to avoid troubles later...
New developers may also be notified of this.

Fabien

Clarification....

Submitted by lsantha on Sat, 11/13/2004 - 22:21.

Here is a discussion on this topic:
http://www.javalobby.org/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=15416
It seems that we still have to use GNU Classpath because the Java Research License is not compatible with LGPL.

Levente

a change in the licence ?

Submitted by Fabien D on Sat, 11/13/2004 - 21:21.

Do you mean that there is a change in the sun licence ?

Whatever sun licence have for their source code, I don't see why it can change something on JNode and GNU Classpath because GNU Classpath must be written without use of the jdk source code (only with the sun spec and the jdk docs).

Fabien

i disagree

Submitted by ahmetaa on Mon, 11/15/2004 - 10:15.

i think JNode developers should be a little humble before reaching any kind of conclusions like that.
Maybe in the future JNode will be a good operating system, but the middle term it is a research project. Do you expect people to run JNode for thir servers now? i wish, but not yet. i would suggest to use JDK code putting GPL zealocy apart. Sun would never sue or shutdown JNode for using their flagship product, "java". Look at mono people, shamelessly using .net as if microsoft will treat them with tender and care. .Net= windows period. Sun always provide assistance to all kind of OS'es. Otherwise they would not bother preparing JDK's for linux, Macs or Windows. So i say go and use the code, if possible.

.Net / CLI

Submitted by dev on Mon, 11/15/2004 - 13:47.

CLI/CLR specifications have been placed by Microsoft with ECMA
and its a ECMA proposed standard, much like ECMAScript (standardized
version of JavaScript).

Hence "legally" any independent party can download the specs from the
ECMA.ch site and implement it!

The "enlightened" mono people have done their legal homework and
then went ahead with cleanroom implementation and "reverse engineering" in specific cases relating to the object layout.

Hence you assertion that "Mono people are shamelessly using .NET"
is not correct!

However, in the initial stages of the mono C# compiler, the MSFT
C# compiler was used to bootstrap the mono framework and tools.

Finally, if you do some close research at the bytecode format and
.IL format, you will realize that the intermediate code format
as used in .IL is much more type-rich and amenable to native compilation than bytecode is!

Type rich IL in CLR is a commendable achievement since it provides a
rich substrate for various language idioms and methodoligies and the
sametime help them interoperate.

SUN, the greedy fools messed up classformat and slapped generics
and aspects (a very powerful concept) on Tiger. What you put in a
language as an after thought will be seen as ugly warts, no matter
how good the copied idea is!

Sun ___DOES___NOT___PROVIDE__ assistance to all kinds of OS!
This is plain b**LLSh*t.

JDK ships for Windows, Solaris, Linux, thats all!

Show us a SUN-JDK for AIX, HPUX etc.

Blind faith is very dangerous! Don't make a prophet out of Gosling!
The folks sold their shares before even you knew what dot.com boom was!

thanks
Dev.

do you remember JBoss

Submitted by dev on Mon, 11/15/2004 - 13:32.

Perhaps you have not looked at JBoss the leading Application Server.

First the lawyers forced the folks to change the name from EJBoss.
Next the Sun team scuttled/denied the JBoss team from becoming part
of the JCP and then Sun folks did not let them be J2EE Certified App Serv.

Why ?

Because it was a far superior and technically advanced product than
the bearded sucking politically inclined Sun engineers could ever
create.

Which world are you living in ?

thanks
Dev.

Yeah, it seems to be a change

Submitted by ink on Sat, 11/13/2004 - 21:56.

Sun has released the sdk also under a new licence, the JAVA RESEARCH LICENSE.
The word RESEARCH is very important:

<< "Research Use" means research, evaluation, or development for the purpose of advancing knowledge, teaching, learning, or customizing the Technology or Modifications for personal use. Research Use expressly excludes use or distribution for direct or indirect commercial (including strategic) gain or advantage. >>

An so, why to use GNU Classpath ?

We could use the orginal source... without limitations, cause JNode is not-commercial, and it's "research".
I'm sorry, but my mind cannot conceive to write a yet-written code.

I wouldn't like to be superficial, but why the GNU Classpath project should go on, now ?

C.Santini

JRL FAQ

Submitted by Avery Regier on Tue, 11/16/2004 - 21:24.

This is from the JRL FAQ page: http://www.java.net/jrl.csp

8. When do I need to get a commercial license?

This research license is only for initial research and development projects. If you decide to use your project internally for a productive use, and/or distribute your product to others, you must sign a commercial agreement and meet the java compatibility requirements.

I think all of us want to use JNode for some productive use in the future.

-Avery

Someday it won't be resarch anymore

Submitted by monochromata on Sun, 11/14/2004 - 12:52.

Maybe Jnode is more a research project currently, but I would also like to use it for none-research purposes when it has emerged into a full-blown OS. This would be difficult if the core of the OS is restricted to research use only.

Sebastian

Agreed

Submitted by s750smc on Mon, 11/15/2004 - 03:31.

I agree. Someday, when JNode become a great candidate among OSes, someone may want to run a, for example, shopping mall on it. I don't think that'd work with the JRL.

s759smc